54 so far

67 now counting two in a room

Everyone was really listening

truth telling

We knew each other well and trusted each other.

Engaging discussion with full participation

Everyone was eager to learn for each other

Acceptance of all

Honesty

we all felt safe

Everyone felt connected

trust in the room and it was relaxed

Trust and openness

Laughter

we were connecting being interested in each other expereinces

Meeting 8 people to eat together--good friends, good conversation

patience with listening to each other

It felt safe

People took time to make every person feel special and known

Good listening

Sharing with vulnerability

Not being told what to believe

remembered how much we loved each other

Listening and processing before speaking

Willing to share in ways we had never done. Full fast exchange.

non-judging

It was going well because the people were open and respectful/

Energy

people listened to each other and everyone had time to talk

Deep connection.

felt safe enough to risk vulnerability

All "on the same page" and excited about what we were doing together

Trust and covenant present

The leader was using images and language with which I resonated.

group agreement of boundaries: no interrupting, no crosstalk

Not rushed

patience and kindness re needs like eating, stretching, resting etc

familiar surroundings & people

One class I taught where all students got interested.

common knowledge

new knowledge never shared before, but needing to know.

It is always part of our covenant with youth.

I get it. Sounds good.

makes sense

This process feels too rushed.

I appreciate this approach

Sounds like some good ground rules to us.

Seems doable

I’ve never heard of Whoa before and I’m looking forward to using it in other spaces

great prep for this group

Helpful tips

Strong opinions.

In favor of 8th principle. Ready to vote.

feeling comfortable with it

here to listen

curious and with questions

Listen

Listening mode- still learning

curious, just listening

I have an opinion, and plan to support the principle, and I’m interested in seeing where this group is

curious

I haven’t engaged in conversation about this with this community, but I’m very comfortable with the proposal for the 8th principle.

curious, on the edge of the unknown. Yes, questions.

Want to listen to other folks opionin on the 8th, I am voting for 8th

strong in favor of 8th principle

curious and mostly decided?

Favor this Principle be accepted, just wanting to listen in and learn more.

I’m ready to vote but really want this process, Thank you

support, ready to vote, curious

Concerns with 8th principle

We are listening and have positive opinions about the 8th.

Listening. Favor the Principle.

I agree that it appears rushed - though we say it's been a year, it seems that once we vote, that will only be the beginning!

Ready to vote for the 8th Principle and also really dig in and put it into practice

ready to vote yes. love listening

I am here to listen and contribute as needed, but strong opinions for the adoption of the 8th

curious and listening and have unformed questions

have been thinking about the 8th Principle for more than a year, will vote yes, still not sure about how our church will put it into practice

Listening and in favor of the 8th principle

I support the 8th Principle.

curious. have some opinions. In general in favor of adopting the 8th principle depending on how it is to be implemented

In favor and supportive of the 8th. Listening, because I haven’t been able to come to other discussions. So curious what my beloved community has been thinking and feeling about this.0

Followed along w 8th Principle discussion at the church I grew up in where my mom still attends. Curious about its application to us.

I know without even learning anything that I am totally for the 8th principle. My life’s work has been focused on equity.

The 8th principle seems to be to be a natural next step in addressing justice issues to address out of our values, our beliefs.

In favor of the 8th Principle. Only concerned with how wordy it is. Have submitted a more concise version that I hope captures the fullness of it.

listening and in favor of adopting 8th principle

I am excited for us to vote, and hopefully adopt, the 8th principle. I am looking forward to what comes next. Also, as the only program staff person who identifies as BIPOC, I am curious what this will all look like.

Want to ensure we are ready to walk the walk not just talk the talk.

I believe that it would have been better had we had at least is months of opportunities for congregational discussion on this, preceded by some suggested group readings.

Ready to vote, and will vote for it, but, as a religious professional have been learning about this for longer than most people here.

Modifying response... also want to listen in addition to being in favor

We used Ouch and Woah and oops in our family but they had different meanings

I've become familiar with 8th & ready to know others thoughts

Not sure how I will vote and I want to listen

I am in favor of the 8th principle and know why it’s needed, but don’t know that I am far enough on the journey myself, as much as I hope to be.

Want to make sure the adoption results in action and not just talk and feeling good about ourselves for adopting it.

Why are we focusing on the 8th principle when a rewrite of Article II is happening?

Where is this issue nationally? Have other congregations voted?

How will be gauge our success over time?

Why can't we begin anti-racism work without an 8th Principle?

Can it be states more simply?

How will we carry out the 8th principle? How can we gauge its effectiveness?

How do you anticipate the 8th principle with change the nature of our church?

Why do we think that the 8th principle will solve the problem of lily white congregations? Is there any data at all from other congregations who have already adopted

How will we specify actions to accomplish this?

I know ministers aren't supposed to guide this decision, as the congregation needs to make the choice. How will ministers manage this initiative if congregation votes in favor?

https://forms.office.com/pages/responsepage.aspx?id=GOzcUUxfIE6MVfi6ThPv9IGeig3dXJVFs1B9j8GnZ0BUNlA2VEpJU05FVkdLQTgyRjgwNllBQzFORC4u

What changes are anticipated if we adopt the 8th principle?

What is the article II process?

How does the process of adopting an 8th principle differ from congregations becoming "welcoming"?

https://www.uua.org/uuagovernance/committees/article-ii-study-commission/blog/8thprinciple

>250 congregations voted; is that the number of congregations who have adopted it?

Yes @ EmmaLia, approx.

Thank you, Dámaris

We have a children's version too.

The children's version is probably more succinct!

What is the children’s version?

Long Beach posts this version: “8th Principle: We must work together for diversity and against racism and oppression"

https://www.uuclb.org/about-us/our-beliefs/uu-principles-sources/kids-principles/

Is it too late to simplify the 8th principle wording?

@Carl & Kim

https://forms.office.com/pages/responsepage.aspx?id=GOzcUUxfIE6MVfi6ThPv9IGeig3dXJVFs1B9j8GnZ0BUNlA2VEpJU05FVkdLQTgyRjgwNllBQzFORC4u

Carl & Kim: Children's version- Build the Beloved Community, free of racism and oppression.

Intend is so important , 8th is so important needed now, and need action now we can modify wording over time

@mikaela well said and great cat!

What will we be voting on exactly?

Could you please read the 8yh principle to refresh our memories

“We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote: journeying toward spiritual wholeness by working to build a diverse multicultural Beloved Community by our actions that accountably dismantle racism and other oppressions in ourselves and our institutions.”

As with the children's version of all of our principles, it is a jumping off point for the 4 to 11-year-olds to begin to understand those ideas.

You did say my name correctly 🙂

https://www.uua.org/lgbtq/welcoming/program

We became a Welcoming Congregation in 1995.

I like the current version on the 8th prinicple, it is a good pledge, like a pledge like the pledge of allegience we recited as children in school

Yes, what he says!

https://www.8thprincipleuu.org/why-single-out-racism

That was extremely helpful

I don’t think it’s a waste of time to have this principal in place. We may know our principals but outsiders looking for churches who don’t know our principals seeing that in our principals may spell things out a little more clearly (my opinion)

Language is key to communication, yet the discussion about the wording doesn’t seem to be an option. This seems counter to being UU?

Ouch!

The quotes that were in the Widening the Circle from religious professionals were stunning.

I see a few WHOAs

Mia and I were also there.

As long as voting on the first principle an early step in the process, encapsulating our commitment to the work … and then we actually do the work, I will be glad to vote yes.

8th Principle website:https://www.8thprincipleuu.org/

The current principles are easy to understand for non-UU's. That is one of the attractions of them. The proposed 8th principle is dense, convoluted , and complicated. I am concerned that it might turn off some potential members.

(Of course, my comment was about the 8th principle, not the 1st.)

I think that is good question. Have congregations got more involved in anti-racism after they passed the first 8th priniciple and made progress in their congregations - I think Mistakes and Mircales chronciles that but more examples are also good.

Admittedly, this is very difficult for me to hear. I am going name this from the 8th principle website: For people identified as white, it is too easy to ignore these issues, which is exactly what keeps the system of racism in our society alive and in fact worsening right now. We need to de-center whiteness and other dominant cultures in UUism.

@Alana - this matches my experience as a white man

Reed says - Covid and elections have made it difficult to stay connected to all the work we still need to do.

Whoa

Thank you Alana

Can someone provide us the children’s version here?

THANK You!!!!

Mia wrote: Children's version- Build the Beloved Community, free of racism and oppression.

I like the term dismantle

Thank you, Heather. I feel you, Alana. Me too.

Thank you, Heather, for prioritizing the work versus the words

Build the Beloved Community, free of racism and oppression. But in my opinion, the current proposed language is more complex and nuanced, and there are reasons for the way it's worded which are explored on the 8th Principle website.

The Children’s version is much more plain and easy to understand?

@heather - I’ve seen that treatment first hand, thank you for identifying that

We agree with Heather’s comment.

@Justin - thanks for confirming. I appreciate that!

I agree with the perspective that perfectionism in language hinders progress in meaningful work

I don’t like the wording either. And I see the need for the conversations: understanding how racism functions beyond our personal value systems. However, I feel the urgency that we vote on this first and work on the wording and understanding later, given how much suffering has already happened.

I also do not think that the wording is harmful; I feel like there is a lot of energy being put into saying “I agree this isn’t perfect, but…” instead of “I think this part is valuable”/“the principles wording makes me think of this…”

Becca: Children's version of all of our principles and sources are directed at our 4-11 year-olds,, so that they can begin understanding these ideas. Discussion of the ideas in the language of the current 8th Principle as proposed are part of beginning on the path to working together on racism and oppression.

Love you and honor you, Alana!

Disclosure: my son is one of the BIPOC youth who loves the church and feels strongly that he is Black in a White church and is not fully comfortable with that.

Thank you Alana.

Thank you, Mia.

I think lets risk trying nuance long wording and get started , we can refine it later

Thank you Kathy- that is often the opinion of our BIPOC Coming of Age participants.

Thanks Alana!

Please explore those resource link lists broadly distributed to all groups previously gathered on this topic?

We are so saddened to hear racism is so prevalent in our congregation(s) behavior. First time, here tonight.

Yes! I agree. Not intentionally harmful.

@Julica - go to Hawaii!!

Carl and Kim and Everyone: Our (White) racism is often completely unintentional. It is often comes from our different experience and lack of awareness.

Yes, absolutely

That's the work! Beloved communities moving together at 800+ different paces! Loving each other where we are, encouraging moving toward justice. Not graceful but such good work.

Carl & Kim - sorry you have not heard the perspective of our POC members at First U … we have found a safe space within our own POC group but have not necessarily "found our voice" or place as individual congregation members

@Lucy thank you for sharing that perspective

https://uuabq.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/FAQs-8th-Principle-2.pdf

Sorry Mia. That should have gone to everyone.

One thing I learned from Mistakes and Miracles is that anti-racism is a long process and it goes in difference stages and steps.

I agree def. A long process, not an “instant fix” the 8th principal is just a step on the path, not the be all to fix all.

https://www.debbyirving.com/the-book/

Excellent book

Have we (whoever “we” is) considered having a section of every Sunday service specific to this, just as we have a section for formal meditation, a section for music, a section for youth (puppets), etc. Bring this subject into our normal routine.

How does the IDI help in our journey of anti-racism?

Yes! White people need to do their own work so they are not harming BIPOC people. And BIPOC ARE exhausted and re-traumatized from further discussion.

Thank you, Jennifer, for recognizing BIPOC exhaustion and trauma.

How did we get here? Great read: History of White People

My good friend who is African American has been mentoring me as I’m developing a comprehensive program to help teachers deal with the institutionalized racism on schools and begin to challenge and change it.

Yes, EmmaLia!!!

EmmaLia -- That is the best explanation I have heard.

Thank you, Richard. I a so glad that it resonated!

Yes, it is sooo important that we are talking together about this!

You make me laugh, Richard! I love your sense of humor.

Thank you everyone for being engaged

Ministers also wrote essays about racism in UU churches in this book: https://www.uua.org/products/centering

Great!

what is the IDI

@ NC https://idiinventory.com/generalinformation/the-intercultural-development-continuum-idc/

Thank you for holding space for me to share my feelings in the moment and being vulnerable in a way I am not usually without time to put my thoughts and feelings in order. I love this church.

The Intercultural Development Continuum (IDC TM) describes orientations toward cultural difference and commonality that are arrayed along a continuum from the more monocultural mindsets of Denial and Polarization through the transitional orientation of Minimization to the intercultural or global mindsets of Acceptance and Adaptation. The capability of deeply shifting cultural perspective and bridging behavior across cultural differences is most fully achieved when one maintains an Adaptation perspective. This continuum is adapted from the Developmental Model of Intercultural Sensitivity originally proposed by Milton Bennett.

Julica, not everyone may know what IDI is.

Do you have any new groups forming to take the IDI?

Is there a children’s version of the IDI?

What Lucy is saying is a common micro aggression BIPOC people face in our congregation.

there is not an idi for children

Lucy, thank you so much for expressing your feelings and reality in our church. We need to hear that.

I appreciate you, Lucy.

💗

thank you, Lucy

Love you always, Lucy. LSC does too!

Thanks, Lucy

Want to honor everyone being here tonight. I so love you all.

Wonderful, open sharing.

I need to stand and stretch and get off camera after a long day. I am also so grateful for this space.

Thank you all for sharing alongside Julica, Rev. Jane Damaris and all.

feeling some increased understanding and hope for our future as Beloved Community!

I appreciate the conversation, questions, honesty and candid talk. We should do this more often!

Grateful to be part of this so needed discussion.

I feel that I have a new reason to vote for the 8th principle. Its a call to get to work now.

Thanks for the participation - I have mixed feelings about the # of attendees - 50 YES, and where are the other 750?!

My IDI group is Wednesday. I appreciated the reminder that people are at various levels and we need to appreciate that process and not”yank them” to where we are.

I’m grateful for this space and these people. I need to eat these ribs my instant pot has been cooking during our time together. And I need to connect to our POC group.

Reed - letting it all sink in

I appreciate everyone that has shared so open and honestly.

we need to find more ways to have these conversations

I am grateful for the careful listening and participation of everyone here today. Thank you.

I love the commitment to strengthening community in the process decision making

I am so very grateful to the facilitators of this meaning. Julica, especially, your facilitations has been awesome. So balanced and a model for this kind of conversation.

Thank you all for Being here - everyone

Thank you everyone and especially Julia, Rev. Jane, Damaris…

Wonderful facilitation, Julica

Thank you, Julica.

A good conversation, I need more of the same with our careful shaping of our “container” as a model

I still think the Sunday services should routinely acknowledge these things, every week.

I really appreciated watching you work, Julica, because I will be doing that shortly with teachers.

Sharon says: I appreciate the sharing, the thoughtful comments, and the commitment to this important work. And I really appreciate Julica’s wonderful facilitating!

Thanks to all for a very helpful evening.

Thank you. Felt like masterful facilitation.

Thank you